Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/05

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Commons Gazette 2024-05

Edited by Bawolff (talk) and RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 10:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

SVG and thumbnails not updated

Your kind attention (and hopefully effective assistance) might be welcome here. Thanks in advance. —ReadOnlyAccount (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

People of / People in

Hi, While most categories are "People of ...", couples are Couples in .... Any reason? Yann (talk) 06:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

there's also Category:People by country of location.
origin vs location. RZuo (talk) 07:23, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Each can make sense. Certainly almost no category about a person could be a subcat of a "people in" category, because people move. Conversely, sometimes all we know is where someone was photographed, with no idea where they may have been from (or knowing full well they were from someowhere else). - Jmabel ! talk 14:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Privacy issue

I am sure that File:Venedig-352-Klingeln-2003-gje.jpg has multiple privacy issue, there are various family surnames. Is there any Commons rules broken? --93.47.37.244 09:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

As long as the location of this residential building is not publicly identifiable, there are actually no rules broken. Regards --A.Savin 09:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
IMO, privacy concerns usually have no merits and deletion requests usually result to "kept". See COM:Non-copyright restrictions. However, if the uploader him/herself decides to nominate their image on their own, then admins may grant deletions (based on non-copyright concerns) as courtesy. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 10:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
The image was 16 years old when uploaded and is now 21 years old. That to me alleviates any privacy concerns. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:49, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Videogame thumbnail

I attempted to upload a game thumbnail picture, but it got quickly deleted. Is there any legit way to upload it? The game producer has told me that everything from this webpage "can be published on any website", as it is the game's official press kit, but currently, no success. Siberian Snake (talk) 14:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Siberian Snake: Hi, and welcome. Please have the game producer send permission via VRT with a carbon copy to you to keep you in the loop.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
A reminder that we don't just share in this place. We make available for other people for all purposes, including commercial use. Especially that last thing is not always what a producer might expect. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

PD-USGov-POTUS Flickr account uploading photos under a non-commercial license

How do we go on about this? flickr2commons won't work for obvious reasons--Trade (talk) 03:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

My longstanding requests for Flickr2Commons (and more recently, Flickypedia) to allow uploads by trusted users of PD images wrongly tagged on Flickr with non-free licences have, to date, fallen on stony ground :( Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:16, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

AI generated images of Shinto deities

I noticed that it seems the majority of Shinto deities have no images available here. Some of these deities are relatively important so I feel they should have images to give people some idea about them. Would it be acceptable to upload ai generated images for this purpose or would that violate rules of commons? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 16:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: I would expect that for any Shinto deities where there is a traditional visual representation, it should be easy to find images old enough to be in the public domain and use those. What is the difficulty in doing so? If there is no traditional representation, what would be the basis to consider these AI images culturally valid? - Jmabel ! talk 18:43, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel you make a very good point. I am unsure what the reason behind the lack of visual representations here is, but they are very hard to come across. Shinto is not traditionally ancionistic, but for many deities, even seemingly relatively prominent ones it seems the majority of visual representations are from Gacha games or Shin Megami Tensei. It is quite confusing. Maybe people just are not searching for and uploading enough paintings. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 18:50, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: do you have specific deities in mind as an example? --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:22, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@HyperGaruda Ame no Hoakari is the one I was thinking of. He comes up a lot when talking about the Tenson Korin, but I cannot find any images at all. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Any images in the public domain, or in general? If the latter - what do you expect the AI-based image to be based on? AI isn't a crystal ball. Omphalographer (talk) 21:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
If you could provide a list of these deities (or point us to a place where we can find which ones you mean) we can help look for visual representations in the public domain and upload those directly. I'm personally really not a fan of using AI if alternatives exist, but I don't know how other editors feel. ReneeWrites (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@ReneeWrites I will get back to you with a list. Thank you for your help! Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I cannot imagine AI-generated images being appropriate illustrations for these subjects. They fall into the same category as user-created artworks, which are generally considered out-of-scope except for edge cases (flags and heraldry) where a standardized and detailed starting description is available. That does not appear to be the case here. AI-generated images have additional concerns which have been discussed at length on Commons. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
It's probably a shot in the dark, but you might ask someone from Japan on here to take pictures of the statues of these people. I know they exist, but apparently are hard to find images of for some reason. Especially ones that are freely licensed. Maybe it could be turned into a Wiki Loves Monuments project or something though. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:51, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Another tram question

Trying to identify the location of File:TramFromAbove(50352061186).jpg, i think it's the same tram model as here: File:Tram Ce 4-4 145 + Anh. C4 311 (22053976288).jpg , thus pointing to Berne / Switzerland, but i don't know if the same tram model was used in different swiss towns, too. There was a line 11 in Berne, between main station and Fischermätteli, but i wasn't able to match the street and the buildings to any location there. Is anyone able to recognize the street or the buildings? Fl.schmitt (talk) 19:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fl.schmitt: many thanks for narrowing it down to Bern, that made it a lot easier. I am fairly sure we are looking over Hirschengraben, toward the northeast. Quite likely a tourist photographed this from a window or balcony of the Hotel National. Most of the buildings in the back (address numbers 1 to 11) are visible in File:ETH-BIB-Bern-LBS H1-026968.tif, except for the one at number 9 (probably built some time after the tram picture). File:ETH-BIB-Bern-LBS H1-012239.tif is a few years older and less sharp, but does seem to confirm all the façades we see in the tram picture. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
@HyperGaruda - great, thanks a lot! In fact, Hirschengraben fits the old photography perfectly. I've searched in vain at Schwarzentorstrasse (similar street layout, but completely different buildings). I agree also regarding the camera position. Wonderful - another unidentified location pinned :-)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Fl.schmitt (talk) 05:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Fl.schmitt (talk) 05:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Question about Wiki Loves Earth 2024

COM:WLE2024 This page has a list of participating countries, and my country is not among them. Participating countries each have their own prize pools and judges. Are these separate from the event-wide judging process, and if so, can people from countries that aren't participating still take part in the contest and be eligible for the judging process? --ReneeWrites (talk) 07:58, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Probably better to ask at Commons talk:Wiki Loves Earth 2024. - Jmabel ! talk 14:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I'll crosspost my question there, but people there don't seem to have much luck, considering one topic that's brought up has not been dealt with for years. The Village Pump sees a lot more activity and gets a lot more eyeballs. ReneeWrites (talk) 10:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
It's better to ask there because it concerns WLE. there aren't any old topics at the wle 2024 discussion page.
I guess your question could be answered by the international orga.
I'm a member of the German WLE organisastion team, I try to answer you as far as I understand :-)
When your country doesn't participate at WLE, you can't participate with pictures of your country at WLE. But you can participate at other WLE competitions from other countrys. You are from the Netherlands the German WLE competition waits for your pictures of German protected areas. Greetings Z thomas 16:48, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Steamboat Willie – Frame by frame

Hi!

As the film "Steamboat Willie" is in the public domain now, would it make sense to upload the frames as single frames here? The Internet Archive offers a lossless movie file (https://archive.org/download/steamboat-willie-16mm-film-scan-4k-lossless/) from where it would be possible to extract all single frames.

Greetings --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 06:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

how many frames in total?
why not the movie directly? RZuo (talk) 07:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
The file is as an MOV file with a filesize of approx. 32 GiB. It should be ca. 10000 frames in total --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Some specific frames, yes. All the frames separately? I don't see the point. But the whole movie, yes. Yann (talk) 07:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I could try a high-quality conversion of the mov file to webm (it wouldn't be lossless, but probably without visible artifacts) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes, that would be useful. As the Quicktime version is 34.2GB, it can't be done with COM:V2C. Yann (talk) 07:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Ok! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
You can do it with lossless AV1 in webm, and split the result in 5GiB chunks for upload to commons. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 23:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
I did upload it with File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 01 von 03.webm, File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 02 von 03.webm, File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 03 von 03.webm, because I thought, lossless would result in too large total filesize --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
  • Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 01 von 03.webm
  • Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 02 von 03.webm
  • Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 03 von 03.webm

Tram construction

It looks like France but which city? Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Do you want to give us some clues, as to where you were, in September 2002? _Broichmore (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Tram? This looks like a 1435 mm railroad to me. Or even bigger? Konijnewolf (talk) 22:35, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Trams can go on standard gauge — see Category:1435 mm track gauge trams. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
You were standing at approximately [45.69445°N, 4.94101°E], looking west, down Boulevard Edouard Herriot in Saint-Priest. This particular stretch of rail would eventually become Category:Esplanade des Arts (Lyon Tram). --HyperGaruda (talk) 06:59, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
i'm amazed by your geotagging skills. Orz.
how do you always manage to pinpoint these places? they dont even look so similar on google maps streetviews. RZuo (talk) 09:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Aww, you are flattering me, but if you really want to know... First I had a detailed look around the photo, the architecture is typical of suburban residential mid/high-rises in France, and then there are a couple of signs in the distance in French, but the license plates were decisive in excluding other French-speaking countries. I then checked what other uploads Smiley.toerist photographed in September 2002; in relation to France I saw Le-Puy-en-Velay and Vienne, both relatively close to each other. Trams are usually found only in big cities and the nearest one is Lyon. According to en:Lyon tramway, after the 2001 opening, line T2 was extended in October 2003, meaning construction work as photographed would have taken place before that, which nicely fits the hints so far. From here I used Google Maps/StreetView/Earth (their historical aerial and street-level imagery is exceptionally useful) to see where on that extension one can find a tramway slightly bending to the left and passing a curved building. The apartment blocks are quite generic, but that curved building in the distance was a key hint in confirming the right location. Finally I try to place myself in the photographer's shoes to figure out the most likely position for taking the picture with this arrangement. Tl;dr: some background knowledge, looking up history, a lot of browsing through Google Maps/Earth/StreetView, and a great deal of luck ;) --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
excellent detective skills! Orzzzz. thx a lot for sharing!
i forgot about checking related uploads (from which approximate location might be inferred). i gave up when i saw that it's a pre-internet-boom photo so most shops would probably have changed. RZuo (talk) 18:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
@HyperGaruda: You are really good at it. It's an incredible skill. Good for you. Good for us ;) MenkinAlRire (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks to all. I suspected something like this location as the image was just after Le-Puy-en-Velay, but I learned to never make any assumption, as often the next image on the film could be weeks later somewhere totaly different.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Files from Personal Creations Flickr stream

712 images in this Category. I think they all should be deleted. Every image (bar 1 that I edited) contains a link in the Description to commercial web site advertising personalised goods. Each Description consists of this plus a superfluous part of the Licence conditions and nothing more. So each would need the Description editing Many of the files are potentially Copyright Vios - the licence of the photos is correct on Flickr but they are Derivative Works of the items photographed. Its a lot of work to go through the whole lot editing.

In my opinion the whole photostream was created as an advertising promotion for website. Does the other Users agree? Is there is a simple way to delete all files in the Category? I am not very good with Mass Deletion nominations and if I were to follow the instructions in Help it would seem I would have to create a list of 712 files!! Suggestions?? --Headlock0225 (talk) 09:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. The descriptions containing the license conditions is no big deal. The titles describes the images sufficiently anyways Trade (talk) 09:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes you're right. The descriptions containing the license conditions is no big deal. What is big deal is that web link in every Description. One option is to do a mass edit to remove the web link in every description but I don't know how to do that. Or we accept my contention that the whole lot is one big advertising promotion and delete all 712 files . Headlock0225 (talk) 10:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
If those images are useful in Commons and in scope, the fact they are sourced and linked to a commercial website is no problem.
If those images aren't useful in Commons or not in scope, they should be deleted, but not because of the link.
The descriptions could be improved, with the conditions and the link moved to a more appropriate section. You can do it by hand for each image or learn how to do batch edits. However, I would say that is one of the least useful uses of a Commons editor's time, but YMMV and since we are all volunteers it's up to each one to choose their tasks and if you want to take this one it's perfectly fine.--Pere prlpz (talk) 11:23, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
@Headlock0225: I zapped that spam for you using VFC.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:43, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you - that is just what I was hoping someone would do! Headlock0225 (talk) 16:34, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
We are gonna be real busy if we have to delete all photos that includes links to the author's website Trade (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I will help with the descriptions and categorization. GeorgHH • talk   12:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks Headlock0225 (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

CropTool

Seems to be down again. I keep getting the error message: "Upload failed! undefined ". --Rosiestep (talk) 13:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I am also facing issues with the tool from yesterday.--Rocky Masum (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Hungarian category without upper categories

Category:MÁV machine repair plant This is a fairly confusing categorie with some images of rail vehicles and some derelict site.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I added Category:Economy of Budapest. Ymblanter (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Error in Upload Wizard

When I go to "upload file" in the navigation bar on the left, it says:

"Sorry, we could not find a tutorial in your language. The English one is shown instead."

However, my language is set to Canadian English. Is this a bug? It's been doing this all the time.

Thanks! Myrealnamm (💬talk · ✏️contribs) at 23:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

It's probably a bug that "en" does not normalize to being identical to "en-CA" in this case or a "bug" that no one has "translated" from en to en-CA. See also Commons:Upload Wizard feedback. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Categories vs articles

I made this category Category:Moto-Ise Shrines and connected it to the French wikipedia article but it was changed to the category. I feel this may be a significant issue with wikidata generally. How should it be resolved? Have efforts been made for it? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 21:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

This is a persistent issue. Wikidata items that are "Category:x" should link to "Category:x" here. Items that are "X" (i.e. just an article) should link to "X" here (i.e. a gallery). We should not generally link cross-namespace items unless said namespace just doesn't exist on one project or another, but Main and Category exist on all projects. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I've had that happen a couple of times myself. It doesn't help that there's bots on their end constantly changing links to Commons. There's been a couple of times were I just said screw it and gave trying to have things linked the correct way because a bot kept reverting me. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
If there is no "Category:X" Wikidata item (and typically there isn't), and there is no gallery page on Commons, then (and only then) it is correct to give a non-category item in Wikidata an interwiki link directly to the Commons category. And, in any case, Commons category (P373) should be the Commons category. - Jmabel ! talk 02:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Jmabel is exactly correct here. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Purge button

Can we please have the ability to purge the cache of pages, like we do on en-Wiki. I'm currently working on the second page of Category:Oasts in Kent and it is not updating on reload. It is not possible to do a manual purge either. Mjroots (talk) 05:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mjroots: There's a few gadgets listed at Help:Purge to choose from. I personally use Page Purge and have no complaints. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, Pi.1415926535, found Page Purge in preferences and enabled it. Mjroots (talk) 06:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
you can always add "?action=purge" to the end of the URL. - Jmabel ! talk 16:11, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Dating Geneva postcard

The black and white postcard was posted on 1963-7-21. However the last classic postcards in black and white, where in the 1950s and most publishers switched to colour from then on. The image looks old and I managed to find a coloured in version in https://www.jhpostcards.com/fr/products/geneve-geneva-ile-j-j-rousseau-et-le-mont-blanc-7001-switzerland-old-postcard-used. Coloured in postcards where the fashion before WW I. So I strongly suspect the original photograph was pre WW I.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Is that a lake steamer converted into a jetty at the Genève-Jardin-Anglais? Might be good for dating? Broichmore (talk) 14:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Acceptable photo ?

I found a 1950's era lined exercise notebook with the picture of en:Marilyn Bell on the cover. It was printed as a promotional item for Crown Brand corn syrup with a motivational text for school children using the swimmer as a role model. Before taking the time to import it here, I want to make sure this kind of 70 year old image may be imported and used on WP ? JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 13:51, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

@JeanPaulGRingault: Hi, and welcome. Was that corn syrup sold in Canada or the US? Was the notebook found in either country? If US, and there was no copyright notice, it would be {{PD-US-no notice}} (I am unsure of the formalities in Canada).   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
It's from Canada...JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 15:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Name of age groups

So since Category:Young adults have been mvoed to Category:Young adults does that mean that Category:Middle-aged people should be moved to Category:Middle-aged adults as well? --Trade (talk) 15:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Your prior category should be Category:Young people? A typo I guess. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
I think young adults and young people is something totally different. Young adults are young but adult people something like 18/20 to 25/30. But young people is about all young people including children so for example all between 0 and 25/30. "Middle-aged adults" does not make sense as middle-aged people is clear as the term "Middle-aged children" does not really exist. GPSLeo (talk) 19:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

StockCake – how to handle

The website StockCake offers public domain AI-generated images. How should the site be viewed in relation to the scope and educational use, including copyright?

Thanks and kind regards --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

There is some conversation, but no definitive local policy. Have you seen Commons:AI-generated media? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:17, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
There is no copyright concerns. Trade (talk) 12:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for your annotations! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:02, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
AI are the sort of images we should not be uploading, they are counterfeit, consequently non-educational, have no validity or veracity. The project could and will be easily be swamped with this rubbish. Our reputation will be damaged and our admins drowned. They are a threat to the project. Broichmore (talk) 18:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
@PantheraLeo1359531, Trade, and Broichmore: please review Commons:Village_pump/Proposals/Archive/2024/02#Ban the output of generative AIs.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
That discussion is a muddled mess. @The Squirrel Conspiracy: shut it down far too early; and what does he mean by the consensus (is) against adopting these changes? What changes? It's no exaggeration to say that AI threatens the very viability of the project. Computers can create fake images faster than we want to cope with. People just haven't thought out the implications here. Broichmore (talk) 15:26, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
There were over two weeks between the last comment in that discussion and when I closed it. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 15:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
What did you mean by the consensus (is) against adopting these changes? What changes were mooted? Can you please advise? Broichmore (talk) 00:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
The proposal was "Ban the output of generative AIs". The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 01:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I just wanted to ask what the positions are here in case a user gets the idea of obtaining masses of images from these kind of sources. --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 17:09, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Is this username appropriate?

User:Mark Nakoykher. Na koy kher / На кой хер in Russian means What the f*** (heck) in English. --Quick1984 (talk) 18:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's an issue, especially for someone who hasn't edited in two years. Commons:Username policy does not prohibit profanity (although some other projects have username policies that do.) He edited for five years with 2500 uploads and doesn't appear to have had any significant issues with other editors, so the clause of Offensive usernames that make harmonious editing difficult or impossible doesn't apply. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Usernames are not allowed if offensive, profane, violent, threatening, sexually explicit, or disruptive, or that advocate or encourage any such behaviour (including criminal or illegal acts). w:WP:USERNAME that's the policy set by the Foundation.
That it's been overlooked to this point is irrelevant.
There is at least one person on the project who adopted an IP address as a user name; IMO, another, that should be added to the list. Broichmore (talk) 15:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
That is the enwiki username policy. It is set by the enwiki community, not the WMF, and has no bearing whatsoever on Commons. The Commons username policy, which I linked above, differs in several ways and does not prohibit profanity. I see no compelling reason to force a username change, especially since the user has been inactive for two years and is unlikely to respond to such a request. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 01:17, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
The user indeed took a lot of excellent photos, which are actively used on external resources. If you saw the comments that appear under serious articles on reputable news websites when readers discover a credit to the author of the photo, you might not be so sure of it. I believe that mentioning WM Commons next to such a dashing nickname does not brighten the reputation of the project. --Quick1984 (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Best way to collect images?

I have a roll of film to upload, shot in Prague during the Velvet Revolution of 1989, as it happens. And I would like to indicate that the individual images are from that same photoshoot.

The two technical features on offer, as I understand it, are categories and galleries. Categories apply to individual images and provide structured heirarchical metadata tags about their content and circumstances. Galleries provide a means of collecting sets of images together after the fact.

So neither feature seems to offer the functionality I seek?

Or should I bend the category system and create a relatively arbitrary category like: "robbies snaps from prague velvet revolution"? Any help would be very welcome. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 12:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@RobbieIanMorrison: Please see if you like any of the cat names or structure at or below Cat:Jeff G.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:21, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
@RobbieIanMorrison: I think what you want here is a user category as described in COM:USERCAT. I'd use a more formal name, something like "Photographs of the Velvet Revolution in Prague by RobbieIanMorrison". The files should also be categorised under a topic category like Category:Velvet Revolution in Prague. --bjh21 (talk) 14:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: @Bjh21: Exactly what I need. Thanks both. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 14:51, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
@RobbieIanMorrison: You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 15:36, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Special:UncategorizedCategories

A reminder that Special:UncategorizedCategories has been bloating once again, and could use someone to take a serious shot at it. - Jmabel ! talk 18:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Providing historical context for photographs of Berlin, Dresden, and Prague as Communism fell in 1989

In 1989, I traveled as a tourist to East and West Berlin, Dresden, and Prague and photographed events in the two weeks spanning the Fall of Communism using 35mm Nikon gear. I have now had those negatives digitized and would like to upload them to Wikimedia under Creative Commons CC‑BY‑SA‑4.0 licenses. The images are probably equivalent in terms of content and scope to any currently on Wikipedia — and usually of far better technical and aesthetic quality. And a couple of the photographs are quite likely historically unique.

Before making the circa 40 JPG scans public, I would like to better articulate their historical contexts. I am therefore looking for input from folk who can help explain these photographs. I think you would need a detailed knowledge of these events and/or know where to find such information. I can easily arrange Zoom video meetings if useful (my timezone is CEST). RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 11:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Do remember that much as with a Wikipedia article, it is easy to edit the text after upload. - Jmabel ! talk 16:13, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
You might want to create a gallery page with the full set of your photos, either in unqualified gallery space (like Places of worship in Seattle) or under your own user page (like User:Jmabel/People). - Jmabel ! talk 16:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Normally I am quite relaxed about evolving text in public, wiki‑fashion. But in this case I would like to add reasonably accurate metadata to the scans before uploading them in public. Because at that point, I think the files will be downloaded and circulated and any opportunity to correct or extend that metadata will be lost. Finally, I assume that there are no private spaces on Wikimedia where I can work with selected others prior to going public. It may also be that some images should not be made public due to privacy and right to likeness issues and that publish‑then‑take‑down does not seem a very satisfactory way of dealing with those questions. Any thoughts? RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
@RobbieIanMorrison: Do you have a pro account on Flickr? That would quite possibly be a good way to do this (where you could give individuals access to the photos without really publishing them). Commons does not have content that is not public-facing, except for the deleted images that are visible only to admins.
I would guess that in most cases there are few privacy concerns after 34 years, but there might be some. - Jmabel ! talk 21:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Thanks for the information. Flickr Pro is reasonable suggestion for working in private. But I have decided to work within Wikimedia Commons instead — and will seek contextual information by adding requests to the relevant Wikipedia talk pages. Moreover, I will not add any depiction metadata to the JPG title and description fields on upload, but rather provide an embedded note that that depiction metadata is being developed and archived on Wikimedia Commons.
    On the privacy front, I did photograph demonstration organizers in Prague and elsewhere — clearly with an implied consent to photograph, although not an explicit consent to make public. I guess most individuals will have retired by now in any case — so I think I should carry on regardless. Also I think it was probably clear that this was (citizen) photojournalism and not simply my holiday snaps.
    Thanks for your suggestions. Much appreciated. I want to get this process right first and your comments have been very helpful. See also this German reference desk posting. Best wishes. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 11:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
@RobbieIanMorrison: If you don't mind me asking, exactly what level of metadata are you trying to attach to the photographs and how exactly do you plan to do that? Like through Wikidata items that are attached to categories containing the images, individual file descriptions, or what? --Adamant1 (talk) 08:01, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1: On reflection, the term "metadata" was probably a poor choice and "context information" would have been a better phrase. So information about locations, dates (because the events were moving rapidly), translations of slogans and placards from Czech to English, and perhaps even the identification of protest leaders (people). So nothing as structured as linking back to Wikidata (at this stage). But I will pay particular attention to the categories with which to associate the images. (And I plan to start uploading JPEG files next week.) Thanks for your interest. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 21:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Template that captures taking conditions for analog images

Is there a template for recording the photographic conditions for scanned images from SLR analog cameras. For comparison, digital cameras embed a ton of metadata in their JPEG files. So I am thinking of things like:

  • camera make and model (Nikon Nikkormat FT2 body)
  • lens type and characteristics (Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 telephoto lens)
  • taking conditions (shutter speed and aperture, if known)
  • film stock and rating (Ilford 135-36 HP5 (coded 2357) black and white negative film, shot at ISO 400)
  • development history (developed by professional lab)
  • scanning history (negative scan at high-resolution by FotoMeyer Fotoservice, Berlin, Germany)
  • other (anything else of note)

Template:Camera is way too basic. I guess I might be able for force some of this information into the scanned image file (using say ExifTool) but I would prefer not too. Thanks in advance. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@RobbieIanMorrison: perhaps {{Photo Information}}? MKFI (talk) 08:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@MKFI: Perfect! Thanks. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 20:13, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Question about file

Is there something wrong with my computer or is this image completely white? Adamant1 (talk) 14:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps it is the backside of File:Karayan Coffee Co. Float, Industrial Parade, King Wamba Carnival, Toledo, O., August 24-28, 1909 - DPLA - 9b9e1305a1ecbb0221cfe865819aabab (page 1).jpg? Not that it makes a white rectangle any more useful. --HyperGaruda (talk) 17:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Looking at the source, page 1 has the image and page 2 is a blank sheet. It was uploaded here by a bot, so the redundancy was missed. From Hill To Shore (talk) 17:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
At this point the lack of copyright notice would be irrelevant, but it would once have mattered. - Jmabel ! talk 18:12, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

NARA photos

I've tried to upload several photos from the NARA website: [1], [2] but receive a message that they've failed verification. What does that mean? Mztourist (talk) 12:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mztourist Commons:List of errors#This file did not pass file verification? RZuo (talk) 11:00, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Community Wishlist: Upcoming changes to survey, and work on template selection requests

Hello everyone,

We have two updates about the Community Wishlist Survey:

Update one concerns upcoming changes to the survey. In the new survey, we are experimenting with grouping similar wishes into a problem space known as Focus Area and modifying the way the community votes to complement this approach. We also have mockups of the new wish intake form. Get the full details.

The other update announces the selection of 4 related wishes around template use for fulfillment (e.g. adding infoboxes and bookmarking templates).

Please make time to read the announcements in detail, and join the discussions.

On behalf of Community Tech –– STei (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

How useful is Template:Types of goods?

How useful is this template when even after nine years the vast majority of the links is still red?

  1. Do we need it on Commons? Isn't it too theoretical, more something for Wikipedia? Commons is for organizing files.
  2. If we indeed need it on Commons, can categories be made for the red links and fill them with correct subcategories and files? Who is going to do that?
  3. If we do not need it on Commons, can this template be removed from the categories it is in now, and be deleted (or put on hold or something like that)? Do the blue categories all have proper parents?

Note: I tried to discuss this on the talk page, but there was only one reaction (in favour of deletion), while I think this kind of questions need more reactions. JopkeB (talk) 08:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm a highly literate native English speaker, and a fair number of these are terms I've never heard. E.g. Post-)Experience goods"? "Credence goods"? - Jmabel ! talk 18:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
I think this style of navigation template can be perfectly useful on gallery pages, but are a problem on category pages. I have seen several of these over time which seem to be well-meaning efforts to port over templates from Wikipedias to Commons. This style was designed to be an aid at the bottom of an article page, and similar placement on a gallery should work fine. However, that usage does not push down the main contents of the page, which putting it on a category does. So for that reason, using this style of navigation page at the top of templates is a bad practice. The redlinks are also an issue. In my experience with nav template implementation, redlinks are not generally preferred by most users. Even much black text can get in the way of the mission of expediting navigation to parallel topics, so a compact nav that only lists real destinations is usually best. A parameter can be used to allow redlinks to still show up for special cases or temporarily while building categories, but should be suppressed normally. Josh (talk) 00:48, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Not useful at all. This is a "coatrack" template - it's a mixture of terms from economics (e.g. "club goods", "veblen goods", etc) and unrelated phrases which happen to include the word "goods" (e.g. "damaged goods", "confiscated goods"). Of the few links which do have an associated category, those categories are frequently misapplied and may themselves be ripe for discussion. For example, Category:Public goods is a fairly eclectic assortment of images and categories largely unrelated to the economic concept of a public good; the few supply/demand charts which actually illustrate the economic concept could probably be moved to Category:Supply and demand curves or subcategories. Omphalographer (talk) 03:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Jmabel, Joshbaumgartner, and Omphalographer: for your reactions. So:

  • The template contains unclear concepts and a mix of concepts from economic theory and daily use of the word "good". This alone is reason enough to define it as "not useful".
  • A template like this one is only fit for gallery pages, not for categories, and it should not be on top, but on the bottom of a page. My comment: I do not expect to have soon so many gallery pages of the (rather abstract) concepts mentioned in the template, that we should need this template to guide us through them.
  • Overall conclusions:
    • [New] An alternative is Category:Types of goods (already exists, but does not contain yet all the subcategories that should be in it and it should have a description).
    • We do not need this template on Commons.
    • This template can be removed from the categories it is in now, and then be deleted. Note: check whether these categories all have proper parents.

 Question Do you agree with these conclusions? Can this template be deleted? --JopkeB (talk) 09:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

@JopkeB: If it were me I'd get rid of "goods" altogether and merge things into Category:Products by type since "products" is less ambiguous and more established. There's no reason to have two competing category schemes for whats essentially the same concept though and I assume doing that would involve deleting the template along with the categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
There is a difference between "products" and "goods". Goods are tangible, products can be goods and services as well. So I would like to keep both. Though I must admit that this definition has not always been consistently applied to all the concepts in goods (like in public goods). JopkeB (talk) 09:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
"Public goods" is almost a coincidence of words, with a different meaning of "goods" ("things that are beneficial" as against "objects that can be the subject of trade"). - Jmabel ! talk 18:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel, Joshbaumgartner, Omphalographer, and Adamant1: I have made a deletion request for this template, see Commons:Deletion requests/Template:Types of goods. Please add your comments there. --JopkeB (talk) 03:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --JopkeB (talk) 03:46, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

NARA photos

I've tried to upload several photos from the NARA website: [3], [4] but receive a message that they've failed verification. What does that mean? Mztourist (talk) 12:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mztourist Commons:List of errors#This file did not pass file verification? RZuo (talk) 11:00, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Quad with tracks

How to categorize this?

Hi, There are several pictures of similar vehicles on Commons (but not so many), but with different categories, sometimes much too board. I am surprised that I can't find a specific category for this type of vehicles. Any idea? Yann (talk) 19:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Off-road quads is probably the closest we have. Ymblanter (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
None of the similar quads are in this category, so I am confused: [5], File:Can-am Outlander 2021.jpg, File:Can-Am Outlander 6x6 T3 Kokonaisturvallisuus 2015 01.JPG, File:Janske Lazne 2022 P87 Cerna hora Can-Am Outlander.jpg, etc. Yann (talk) 20:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Category:Tracked quads B25es (talk) 17:07, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Community Wishlist: Upcoming changes to survey, and work on template selection requests

Hello everyone,

We have two updates about the Community Wishlist Survey:

Update one concerns upcoming changes to the survey. In the new survey, we are experimenting with grouping similar wishes into a problem space known as Focus Area and modifying the way the community votes to complement this approach. We also have mockups of the new wish intake form. Get the full details.

The other update announces the selection of 4 related wishes around template use for fulfillment (e.g. adding infoboxes and bookmarking templates).

Please make time to read the announcements in detail, and join the discussions.

On behalf of Community Tech –– STei (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Is there an easier way to upload PD-textlogos?

Might just be me but using the Upload Wizard is honestly pretty tedious. --Trade (talk) 00:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Trade: As an experienced user, Special:Upload and a copy-paste-edit approach will probably serve you better. - Jmabel ! talk 03:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
@Trade: What's so different about uploading PD-textlogos? If it's about the license template, you could use VisualFileChange for batch changing the licenses. Killarnee (talk) 12:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
A lot of needless repetition in things such as description and captions Trade (talk) 14:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Nevermind, just discovered the new "Copy" function Trade (talk) 15:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

File:Group with stack of books on steps of U.S. Capitol LCCN2016871332.jpg

Am I correct in assuming that the person standing in the front left with the book "THE NINE OLD MEN" in his hand is Walt Disney? Refers to (Disney's Nine Old Men) GeorgHH • talk   19:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: --GeorgHH • talk   15:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Query for media "linked from" xyz, result as PagePile

Hi all, is there a way to query for images that are linked from a certain page? For example, how to get a list of files linked from Commons:Files used on OpenStreetMap/2? Ok, i could try to process the markdown code, extracting the file names. But i wonder if there's a tool that would produce a PagePile?

My first attempt was PetScan, but its "Linked from" filter currently seems to ignore images that are embedded inside galleries, or that are embedded in the page directly (using [[File:xyz.jpg]]). PetScan's "Linked from" would recognize text links (e.g. [[:File:xyz.jpg]]), but no embedded images.

Then i stumbled upon Quarry, since i suppose the content from the sections "File usage on Commons" / "File usage on other Wikis" may be part of some database table, but i'm not familiar with the db structure.

Did i miss something? What's the best approach to get a PagePile of File links? --Fl.schmitt (talk) 15:35, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Found it myself - did a Quarry query to get the list of image links: #82918 (limit 10 for test reasons) which can be uses as source for a PagePile: #58370. The page pile now can be used in a PetScan query #28323802 (in my case: query files which are used on OpenStreetMap but don't have coordinates on Commons). Fl.schmitt (talk) 15:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
I started writing this before I noticed this was solved already, but I'll leave this comment here anyways: One solution would be if User:Bjh21 (operator of the bot that maintains those OpenStreetMap [OSM] lists) could add [[:File:xyz.jpg]] text wikilinks to those OSM lists somewhere (In the embedded images' descriptions? Or maybe inside {{Hidden}}?) so you could use PetScan. By the way, here's a compatible plain list (from this search) of all those OSM lists for PetScan's "Linked from" field, if either PetScan gets fixed or the bot's operator adds those text wikilinks. 2001:14BA:9C40:0:12C:E20D:95CC:ED2 16:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
At Commons:Bots/Work_requests#Add_coordinates_to_images, I did an estimate of the missing coordinates. A bit surprising, given that OSM users should be knowledgeable about it. Maybe the upload process for them needs to be improved. Enhancing999 (talk) 16:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Fl.schmitt (talk) 15:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Wairau Creek, Auckland

Hi, I found that there are two distinct creeks called "Wairau Creek" in Auckland, one to the north of Waitemata Harbour (meeting Hauraki Gulf at Milford Reserve), and the other flows between Glendene and Kelston in the southwest of the harbour. What would be the best way to name the categories for these two distinct creeks as at the moment, we have Category:Wairau Creek (4 images), Category:Wairau Creek, Auckland (empty) and they're not specific enough, but I'm unfamiliar with local views/naming/best practice. Thanks. -- Deadstar (msg) 10:54, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@Deadstar, You might want to try opening a discussion on New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board.
The descriptions for the Wikidata items for the creeks might also provide some inspiration:
Lovelano (talk) 02:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks @Lovelano, I will move my question there! -- Deadstar (msg) 12:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Resolved

Excluding templates from a custom search

Is there a way to exclude the text in templates from a custom search without having to just exclude the actual text? Like say by putting "-template X" in the search field or something? Adamant1 (talk) 09:14, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

The search index only knows about the contents of a page before transclusions (raw wikitext, which you can search with the insource: prefix), and the contents after a full parse (what you see on the screen). It can exclude pages that use a specific template, or not use a specific template. For documentation, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:CirrusSearch —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:40, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Is there a way to find buildings or places in Japan that need photos?

I am going to Japan using a Japan Rail Pass soon and want to be able to take necessary photos there. Transportation will be effectively free for me at the time, so I can grab a bunch of photos of different places, and I intend on going to a wide variety of locations. I already have a list of shrines but these are just ones that I personally want to go to and I feel could have more photos. Is there anywhere else any of you recommend? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:04, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

You can look at en:Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_in_Japan. Ruslik (talk) 19:37, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikishootme should help. Also, this map (you need to ask it to show Wikimedia Commons) shows all geolocated photographs on Commons (there are probably others like this, but this is the one I use). Ymblanter (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Unidentified pictures

Hi, while desperately looking for pictures of cultural assets in Interlaken, I found a category with falsly identified pictures: ''Category:Unidentified locations in Interlaken''. What I can say for sure: all the pictures were made on Lake Lucerne (Vierwaldstädtersee) in Switzerland, or on its shores, and not in Interlaken (some, probably not all pictures were made in Canton Uri). The pictures were scanned some time ago (old wikiproject). I was able to identify one of the pictures (exactly): the tells chapel. To be able to determine the exact location of the other pictures, someone from this region should have a look. Is it possible to rename the pictures from "Interlacken" into something like "Vierwaldstädtersee - Lake Lucerne" and move them into another category? Thanks Rectilinium (talk) 20:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

But I see below that first step has already been done. Please, in the future, if you are discussing the same topic, stay in the same section. - Jmabel ! talk 21:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Its not the same topic. One category is about pictures named "Interlacken" that actually show pictures from Lake Lucerne. In this case both the files and the category should be renamed. Rectilinium (talk) 21:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Changed the category of these pictures as you suggested. And - first time ever - created a hidden category. Thanks. Rectilinium (talk) 22:26, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Rectilinium (talk) 06:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Renaming of several pictures within the same category

I alreay added a request concerning a category of unidentified pictures. At the same time I found a category with several pictures with useless names (all from the same photographer): ''Category:Files of Interlaken with bad names''. First of all, I added all necessary informations about the exact location and asked that the photos be renamed. As soon as this is made, I will edit the categories (remove all pictures form "Files of Interlaken with bad name" and add correct categories. Can someone help to rename the files? Rectilinium (talk) 21:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You can either use the usual method of asking for a rename of each individual file, or you can keep them in that category if there is a pattern to the renames you want (e.g. substituting one string for another, or for a regular expression) explain what you need here. There are tools for doing a mass rename but limits on who may use them. - Jmabel ! talk 21:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I allready used the usual method of asking for a rename of each idividual file, and already suggested new names. But I intentionally didnt change the category yet. Makes no sense before they are renamed. I thought I should mention this. Rectilinium (talk) 21:48, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I would be careful here the remaining files in Category:Files of Interlaken with bad names the filenames there, example File:20100313- DSC4411 (4871663137).jpg shows the date in reverse, (a common sort strategy) and they are suffixed with the sequence (dsc) of photographs taken of a day. So they are not entirely meaningless. Your suggested renames, wipe that information out. Broichmore (talk) 10:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi Broichmore. I agree, dates are important too. But lets say you search for a picture of a specific building: do you search for dates or do you use the name of the region/town/building/street name? With a date you find nothing at all, when a picture has no geodata. And the date is not weaped out, even if you rename the picture. I mean: these pictures have been transfered into a category named: Files of Interlaken with bad names! In 2015. And it was not my idea. I thought, that it might be helpful for others, if I make an effort, to finally identify the places, so that the pictures can be better categorized. Rectilinium (talk) 11:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
@Broichmore: not sure what you mean by "date in reverse". "2010-03-13" would be ISO standard, this is like that without the dashes. - Jmabel ! talk 14:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Take image File:20100313- DSC4411 (4871663137).jpg it was taken on 13 March 2010, at 15:53. The file name contains that date in reverse as 20100313, or 2010 March 13. This is a standard way of naming files on a computer if you want to file them in date order, and see them as such in PC folders. _Presumably the photographer set their camera to name individual shots that way, as well as retaining other ISO unique refs. Broichmore (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Dates (and timestamps) are already in the description, so moving the files would not destroy that information. Still, those are great to see at first glance. I think the date can be added to the file move requests, like "Modern sculpture in the gardens of Grand Hotel Beau-Rivage in Interlaken, Switzerland - 2010-03-13" (edit: or to keep in line with some other files by the same photographer, "20100313 - Modern sculpture in...". By the way, that file should preferably be categorized as Category:Switzerland photographs taken on 2010-03-13, with other files respectively.
On the camera-sequence: Keeping that has in my opinion no benefit: I might upload 40 good pictures from a 200 picture camera spree. The serial-number of the images would allow someone to determine that I skipped 50 frames, then didn't skip a series of 15 good frames before skipping another few bad ones. I can't see how this information is valuable enough to have it in the title, when there are better options (even geographic coordinates or relative angle to the sun are more valuable info). And if someone wishes to bring into a sequence my uploaded images, to reverse-stalk my route in taking them, they can still just order them by date and time. And if I'm not completely mistaken, the exif metadata also keeps the sequence, so it's not even "lost forever". --Enyavar (talk) 15:30, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
There's a discussion elsewhere about over catting by date, which you should read. On this very page.
The camera sequence, may show the route walked by the photographer. I have such a sequence tracking a walk round a disused airfield. The sequence enables context between one photo and another, where there may be few landmarks.
We have art photos from museums, where the names are uffixed with collecion numbers. There are plenty of files here, that contain numbers criticised by some people, who do not appreciate their significance.
If they can still just be ordered (I assume searched) by date and time, why then over cat with dates. Just my arguement in a nutshell. -Broichmore (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
On Catting by Date: In a quick read, I couldn't see anyone there who argues against catting by date. Their opinions diverge on which administrative level to do it. Why do you think that categorizing photographs by the date they were created, constitutes overcat?
On sequences: Sure, there may be examples where the sequence number is intended by the uploader to order the category. I created strict sequential categories myself, for example to enable standardized book illustration names, e.g. here. (Although now, after the wikisource book has finished its review, I wouldn't object if someone systematically renames/replaces all images by what is shown in them: that would make them more accessible in their other categories.)
Now, the naming scheme of the guy who toured through Interlaken in 2010, can be brought into a sequence through the photo serial numbers. But for what purpose would that even be helpful? As far as we know, he wasn't GLAMming all exhibits of a museum. The proposed renaming scheme brings lots of value by actually naming the locations and landmarks depicted, so that nobody else has to do the same detective work that Rectilinium thankfully did here. --Enyavar (talk) 17:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
All arguments that, in my opinion, speak for a renaming have already been addressed. Naming photos by date makes sense when you sort your own pictures on your PC. And the photographer probably saved the pictures somewhere in chronological order. But storing the images on Wikimedia in this way is like using it as a personal cloud for backups. Enyavar gave some examples where there may be exceptions, and where it makes sense to name by date on wikimedia aswell.
I don't take photos that often, but when I do, I name them by date - like this photographer did (year/month/day), but I also add information about the contents. But: if I want to upload the images to Wikimedia, then I make a copy. Eventually I think about what search terms a third party would most likely use to find the file in question and rename this copy accordingly, before I upload. Admittedly, because I don't upload images as often as others (e.g. Broichmore - great work btw), I still make mistakes from time to time (but I'm trying to improve).
And yes, why not placing this photo series in "Category:Switzerland photographs taken on 2010-03-13". What else I could offer: I could provide geographic location information to each picture by adding the "location" template, so everyone could then track the photographer's steps.Rectilinium (talk) 22:35, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Rectilinium (talk) 06:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback period about WMF Annual Plan for 2024-25 is open!

Hello everyone! The work of the Wikimedia Foundation is guided by its Annual Plan. We’ve now published the full draft Annual Plan on Meta. Please share your feedback and ideas!

This is really one of the best chances to influence how the Wikimedia Foundation works and what it chooses to focus on and prioritise, as the Annual Plan is the main guiding document for planning what to do. This is a high-level document, as it aims to find the key points for the entire organisation – this is to find the main direction, which will help the teams at the Wikimedia Foundation to find more tangible objectives.

These are the main goals:

You can read more about what this means in practice on Meta, where you can find both summaries of what the Wikimedia Foundation wants to achieve and links to more detailed pages.

You’re very welcome to share your thoughts on Meta or here, in your own language, and we’ll make sure they are passed on to the relevant parts of the Wikimedia Foundation and that your questions are answered. We can also set up meetings in your own language to further discuss the implication of the Annual Plan, if needed.

Thank you very much for your participation! Sannita (WMF) (talk) 10:23, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

How is Commons in there? In terms of people, infrastructure cost, enterprise services cost/income, development expenses?
I noticed it mentions improvements of UploadWizard as 2023 achievement. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:01, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I wonder how the Upload Wizard was improved if we can't even upload a new version of an image that is larger than 100Mb. Also a complex process where we cannot enter the details of the files but have to wait for them to be uploaded (even if this means waiting hours until midnight) to then enter the details of title, description, etc. In Internet archive you can upload large amounts of files without problems, why do we have an upload wizard that does not accept large files? Wilfredor (talk) 12:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999 while it's not explicit in the text, some support for Wikimedia Commons is planned as part of Objective & Key Result WE2.3. The implication of this are still being defined by the people who will be in charge of this objective, so I can't go into detail, but there will be some support and development work going around Commons also for next fiscal year (i.e. from July 1, 2024 to June 30, 2025).
@Wilfredor Thanks for pointing this out. I'll take note of these two tickets, and see if I can get some answers about them. I do share your feeling that these problems should be fixed, I'll try to give you a response ASAP. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@Wilfredor: you might want to look at Commons:WMF support for Commons/Upload Wizard Improvements and its talk page. And, FWIW, while Sannita and I have had our disagreements about specifics, he is much more responsive and available than his predecessors, and you really should feel free to engage him, probably on the talk page there, which I think is the main place discussion has been taking place. - Jmabel ! talk 14:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
According to your recommendation I have created a section here although I think this will be more hidden: [6] Wilfredor (talk) 16:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
@Wilfredor You should try the big files again btw. Some major bugs were found and fixed by various ppl in the last weeks. See also the gazette note here one day ago. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 18:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
No, it not was fixed Wilfredor (talk) 18:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
The upload wizard limitation being discussed here appears to be an intentional choice not a bug afaik. I imagine you are already aware of this, but User talk:Rillke/bigChunkedUpload.js is basically the best currently existing choice for uploading new versions of an existing large file. Bawolff (talk) 07:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
A section in the plan about Commons would be helpful, even if it says not much is planned. I guess the persons handling DMCA requests mostly work for Commons, so this could be in there.
"Enterprise services" cost/income would be good to plan too. Possibly cost is higher than actual income. Enhancing999 (talk) 10:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999 You're not the only one suggesting this, and I will report that there is cross-wiki substantial consensus to get more info about this kind of data. It is true, nonetheless, that the Annual Plan is a more general document that describes the strategy, while the objectives are defined in the other page I suggested you (and are, in fact, being defined in these very days). Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:40, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I did read WE2.3. It might not impact existing contributors/contributions that much though.
We could brainstorm on points that should be covered from a Commons perspective and then add to the plan, specifying for each if anything is allocated to it or not.
I guess it's also in your interest, not that you end up being the only person working on Commons. Enhancing999 (talk) 16:18, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello @Enhancing999 - Thank you for your comments. In the first half of the new financial/annual plan year, we are going to continue improvement work on UploadWizard to help decrease bad media uploads, with a focus on copyright. We also plan to include further user interface improvements to the “release rights” step, and an initial version of logo detection integration in the upload flow - which represents the second largest reason for deletions. An initial discussion about the logo detection model happened on the village pump. We will continue to keep an eye on ongoing discussions on the Commons village pump about issues that need attention for further planning. Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (talk) 14:00, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Can you ensure this is detailed in the plan as well and can be readily found from a Commons section of the plan? Enhancing999 (talk) 15:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Next 12 months at Commons

Let's list a few points and try to align them with the main ones (infrastructure, equity, safety & integrity, effectiveness)

  • ensure system keeps running (infrastructure)
  • identify core missing Mediawiki features (infrastructure)
  • develop or fix missing Mediawiki features (infrastructure)
  • determine staff active for Commons (infrastructure)
  • be transparent on cost for Wikipedias, storage, enterprise users (infrastructure)
  • provide a safe environment for volunteer and professional contributors (safety)
  • assess cost/income from Commons images as an enterprise service (effectiveness)
  • streamline mass uploads (effectiveness, infrastructure)

Enhancing999 (talk) 08:22, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

  • I think that's all reasonable. I have a very specific thing I'd like to suggest additionally, and I haven't read the document in question well enough to categorize it, but we could really use a paid program manager to help coordinate the volunteers who develop and maintain tools. (Just for Commons this may not add up to full time, but we could share the resource with other wikis.) No one is going to volunteer to be a program manager, and it is pretty evident that we need one. - Jmabel ! talk 15:42, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
    There is just a risk that a headcount for this would reduce resources actually available at WMF for improving Commons directly or providing support for tools written by volunteers. Enhancing999 (talk) 08:47, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
    • @Enhancing999: I personally think that at this point that even if we sacrificed even 1 FTE developer for 1 FTE program manager coordinating our tech volunteers, we'd be ahead on the deal. - Jmabel ! talk 16:01, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't understand what the costing stuff has to do with commons. Bawolff (talk) 07:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
@Bawolff: If they have only so much budget for Commons-specific work, a program manager would come at the expense of some resource currently devoted to Commons. - Jmabel ! talk 17:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I doubt budget is broken down that way. Operational costs are shared with other sites, enterprise is an independent organization (for tax purposes i guess). For most of these things, if money is saved on them it goes to something else in the same department. It probably wouldn't go to something commons related in a totally different department [i dont work for wmf dont really know how the budgeting works]. Bawolff (talk) 18:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe some intro for such a section would be helpful. "Commons provides photos and other files for all Wikimedia projects. These are described using standard wikipages with templates, categories, exif and structured data." In the more detailed section we could mention what for these could be improved (even if ultimately it wont over the next 12 months). For wikipages we can mostly rely on what is done for Wikipedia. We could improve category redirects and should make sure hot-cat and cat-a-lot keep working. Structured data has still some basic problems with the interface. Enhancing999 (talk) 08:47, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

We really need someone to maintain the CropTool. It seems like the thing is breaking every other week. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:30, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
The real solution would be to make cropping of files part of the thumbnail generation. Then we do not need any cropped variants. The users just define the crop they need when adding the file to an article. GPSLeo (talk) 19:40, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
@GPSLeo: Have you considered using {{CSS image crop}}, available on some 76 projects?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 21:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
But that is not a crop that works in the regular thumbnail boxes in articles and also not in the MediaViewer. And of course such a tool needs a UI to define the crop. GPSLeo (talk) 18:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
@GPSLeo: CropTool can help you ballpark the numbers, with the caveat that they are relative to the bSize/originalwidth ratio.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Problem creating files in the Data namespace

Hi there, I'm trying to create a map file in the Data namespace. This used to work until at least a few weeks ago, but now if I try to create a file, either by clicking on a red link or going to the URL I get a message I cannot create the file. Has something changed? If there's a better procedure to create these files happy to hear about it. Also, is there a dedicated discussion space for Data or mappers? Milliped (talk) 16:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Note that an upload using the upload wizard fails as well, the file isn't accepted eitherwith the map or txt extension. Milliped (talk) 16:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I think the page title needs to end in .map. e.g. a url like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data:Netherlands/Amsterdam/VluchtrouteDG423.map?action=edit Bawolff (talk) 20:56, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
.tab for tabular data and .map for map data indeed. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Ah, I get it :-D. Thanks! Milliped (talk) 15:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Hard to read PDF

File:The New Orleans Bee 1828 May 0068.pdf is hard to read, there are multiple black stains/spots. Is eligible for Commons? 93.47.36.4 09:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Short answer, yes; parts are legible..
If you can find a better copy I would upload it as a new file, using the same filename, but with a suitable suffix. It's likely the newer copy will have random stains too. Hopefully the two can be compared for a full transcript.
The copy we have was likely scanned from originals on microfiche, modern scans would be more accurate, if we can find them. Broichmore (talk) 13:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Images requiring rotation by bot

Hi. The bot for Images requiring rotation doesn't work since a lot of time... 8000 files wait for rotation... DenghiùComm (talk) 11:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@DenghiùComm: Sorry about that, blame Steinsplitter.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Never mind. You're welcome ! Thank you very much ! DenghiùComm (talk) 13:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Category diffusion, again

When was it decided to diffuse categories such as Category:United Kingdom photographs taken on 2024-03-15 to Category:England photographs taken on 2024-03-15 etc?

What purpose is served by doing so? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:00, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

And others have brought this clear down to London on particular dates. I'm completely against this. - Jmabel ! talk 18:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
See also Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections#Sahaib, battleground mentality, and edit warring and User talk:Sahaib#May 2024. The user really believes that there is clear consensus for splitting the cats. This is the zillionth time it happens (every time with a different user). I believe all these categories must be deleted, and the files must be categorized back. Ymblanter (talk) 19:25, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Because several nations have enormous first-level subdivisions, that are larger than many nations, with the US, India and China coming to mind. The UK's subdivisions aren't huge, with Northern Ireland (the smallest by size and population) being about the size of Montenegro and about the population of Latvia, but given that the UK is the 21st largest nation by population, a division to first-level subdivisions doesn't seem unreasonable.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Actually, OK for me to have "by date cats" for first-level subdivisions, provided we definitely STOP there. Cities should only have these cats if they are themselves a first-level subdivision (like Berlin), otherwise there is effectively no limitation on notability, given the fact that many cities have only a couple of thousands' population and then one might be arguing that "by date cats" for localities within cities were okay because certain localities have more inhabitants in comparison with some cities... and so on. But of course: should there be an RfC with a consensus to STOP at country level, I'm perfectly fine with this too. Regards --A.Savin 03:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm in agreement with others about this. It seems fine to have "by date cats" for first-level subdivisions. As long as it doesn't get further subdivided into cities, towns, consensus designated places, random streets in the middle of nowhere, Etc. Etc. There's barely enough files by date to justify it at the country level as things currently are. Let alone anything beyond maybe states (or whatever they are called outside of the United States), and even that's a reach. you take countries with the population of say San Marino or Monaco though "by date cats" are essentially pointless. -Adamant1 (talk) 03:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
But these categories are hidden and are intended to be used in templates. For real categories potentially in use by humans we have "Month in Foo", which can be diffused down to villages sometimes, depending on the number of photos. May be there are also categories "Day in FOO", but I have personally never encountered those. Ymblanter (talk) 06:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
take a look at Commons:Village pump/Archive/2023/07#Category:2020 photographs of Hannover. RZuo (talk) 11:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Inkscape svg drawing no line-hatch shown with Firefox on Wikipedia Commons

I made a drawing and surprisingly the hatches are not always shown. It concerns the line hatches shown on Wikipedia Commons with the browser Firefox. Strangely on other browser(s?) this problem is not shown.

File:Screw_vs_Bolt.svg

Even stranger is that when the image is just open by the browser alone, it is shown without any problems.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Screw_vs_Bolt.svg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Public-Publicity (talk • contribs) 09:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Is it from a problem how the drawing was made? Is it a problem how wikipedia commons handles the image? Is it a combination of factors that make this problem occur sporadically?

Any tips how this could be avoided in the future from a drawing making perspective (and maybe some improvements on the website might be helpful also if it is involved in creating the problem)?

Thanks in advanced ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Public-Publicity (talk • contribs) 09:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Public-Publicity: can you be specific what you are seeing different? I don't see the difference, so you may just have a caching issue or such. You say "the line hatches" but you don't say where in the drawing there is a discrepancy. - Jmabel ! talk 16:23, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
https://paste.pics/39dd784c502950a100401be901883c50
See the link
The issue is that this is also not show within the article where it is used.
For the normal view you can just see the direct link to the file itself:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Screw_vs_Bolt.svg Public-Publicity (talk) 16:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
normal view:
https://paste.pics/b119cf11045eeae29f663047b77ea1c8 Public-Publicity (talk) 16:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
How it is seen on the article side by me on Wikipedia and with Firefox:
https://paste.pics/c27c7d94bfdec4deac9b4d2f8e8ba134 Public-Publicity (talk) 16:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

weirdly, also on Firefox, I see the first difference but seem not to see the second. - Jmabel ! talk 19:14, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

WMF does not display the SVG directly. Rather, it uses librsvg to convert the SVG to a PNG and displays the PNG.
It looks like the left-hand cross hatch disappears when the the image is displayed at a width of 293 (i.e., width used on the File: page). A larger PNG will display the cross-hatch:
The display of a PNG should be the same on all browsers.
Clicking through on the File page will render the SVG directly. I suspect the browser rendering has more fidelity, so the hatching is visible at the native 612 width.
Glrx (talk) 20:55, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
The SVG file is also complicated. Some patterns use a stroke of 1 pixel, but the x dimension scaled by about 0.02 or 0.03. When used, patterns have cascaded transforms. Glrx (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
@Glrx Don't know what you mean.
If there is a pattern of 1 pixel with a very small scale you would not see any pattern because of it small size. It would be seen as all the same, as solid fill. When it is too small why is it only seen with certain methods and not on Commons?
What do you mean with 'cascaded transform'?
(The concerining patterns are just simple patterns made with Inkscape. If there is some lost floating pattern, not seen, with a very small size as 1 pixel and a very small scale than this is not correct indeed but it does not concern the occurring problem?) Public-Publicity (talk) 11:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
It often helps to use simple expressions to represent something. Complicated expressions may get misinterpreted. Software often has bugs, and the more complicated expressions may trigger those bugs.
IIRC, the file's cross hatching is overly complex. Instead of having a simple pattern and scaling it by 0.4, it creates a 1/50 size pattern and scales it by 20. That should work in a perfect world, but the world is imperfect.
Inkscape produces complicated SVG that is verbose and full of pointless attributes. There is no guarantee that simple patterns made with Inkscape produce simple SVG. Inkscape also may also use SVG 1.2 or 2.0 features, but those are not supported by WMF's SVG 1.1 renderer.
Glrx (talk) 19:13, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Deleting images

Hey all. I've uploaded two recent images from the AFC Bournemouth YouTube channel, which releases match footage under the CC license. It's come to my attention through searching that these images are actually not as free as I had thought, given they're just reuploaded Premier League footage and past decisions have led me to believe they should not be up there. The two images are this and this. I figured I would make it known here as I do not know how to delete images and was wondering is there any way to speedy delete them or delete without going through deletion requests? Apologies for any inconvenience. — Ser! (talk) 14:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Just for posterity, I'm also uploading a few images from AFC Bournemouth's channel, but from videos that have actually been released on a CC license and are generated by the club's social media team, so not a violation as the Prem footage was. Ser! (talk) 14:48, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
@Ser!: You can use {{Copyvio}} with appropriate parameters on the relevant file pages. - Jmabel ! talk 19:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Many thanks, have now done. Ser! (talk) 12:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Science and technology

Although the Category:Technology category is currently categorized under Category:Applied sciences, I have doubts on whether the parent category is correct. According to Wikipedia, science is "a rigorous, systematic endeavor that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world", while technology is "the application of conceptual knowledge for achieving practical goals, especially in a reproducible way." That is, science is the cause and technology is the result, and the two are separate academinc disciplines. If proposing a new category scheme falls under COM:CFD, then I would nominate Category:Technology for CFD. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

See also Category talk:Science and technology (archive of a CFD), where the nominator Ghouston showed a distinction between science and technology, similar to Wikipedia. I found no mention of "technology" in the Wikipedia article on applied science, except a citation and a portal link. Similarly, I found no mention of "applied science" in the Wikipedia article of technology. So technology is not a subclass of applied science and instead of Category:Applied sciences, the correct parent for Category:Technology should be Category:Academic disciplines. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
It is correctly categorized. One can't separate science and technology, the emphasis/subject of each is different but they're inseparable – think of technology as the artificial products and methods that are the fruits of science (a subset of science). For the development of technology, science as you described it is needed and part of it. For further clarity see Engineering. Prototyperspective (talk) 14:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, but technology is not an applied science or a branch of science. It is a product of science. So it should not be categorized under Category:Applied sciences. It may be directly categorized under Category:Science, similar to Category:Research. Or the interdisciplinary category Category:Science and technology may be revived to cover science and technology together. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:36, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Once there is a technology, it is an applied science. But since it's less clear for technologies that aren't applied much outside a given research endeavor and because that cat is currently tucked away underneath only cat:"Scientific disciplines" it would make sense moving it. I think the best solution would be to have it in the applied science cat and the top-level cat somehow but your explanations make sense so I misunderstood what you intended to do. Prototyperspective (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Sub-catting is not necessarily an "is-a" relationship. For example, Eduard Carbonell isn't a surname or a museum. - Jmabel ! talk 17:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Image showing as 0 by 0 pixels in Wikipedia but entirely there in Commons

As someone here in Wikihelp told me : < @M F Gervais, ask for help on Commons at their Village Pump. It is very strange. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:M_F_Gervais_Monarchs_of_Spain.pdf says it has 0x0 pixels but links to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/M_F_Gervais_Monarchs_of_Spain.pdf which is all there. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)>Italic text

So here I am, And I don't understand what is hapening. Can someone help? Was I cannot use this picture, as the others, in wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by M F Gervais (talk • contribs) 20:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Fixed by purging the page. Bawolff (talk) 22:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Sign up for the language community meeting on May 31st, 16:00 UTC

Hello all,

The next language community meeting is scheduled in a few weeks - May 31st at 16:00 UTC. If you're interested, you can sign up on this wiki page.

This is a participant-driven meeting, where we share language-specific updates related to various projects, collectively discuss technical issues related to language wikis, and work together to find possible solutions. For example, in the last meeting, the topics included the machine translation service (MinT) and the languages and models it currently supports, localization efforts from the Kiwix team, and technical challenges with numerical sorting in files used on Bengali Wikisource.

Do you have any ideas for topics to share technical updates related to your project? Any problems that you would like to bring for discussion during the meeting? Do you need interpretation support from English to another language? Please reach out to me at ssethi(__AT__)wikimedia.org and add agenda items to the document here.

We look forward to your participation!


MediaWiki message delivery 21:21, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Service categories in the various WikiLoves+ projects

Hello everyone, once again I bother you with problems I encounter in my dirty, very dirty, work here on Commons, and having had good feedback on a categorisation problem by place and date above I try again with the same hope. This time it's about the service categories created, evidently for control purposes, for example during national WLMs, such as the one that has been taking place in Italy for years but which leaves a 10-year old trail, i.e. categories that still remain, which IMO were useful during the counting of images for the purpose of an award ceremony but which IMO have outlived their usefulness, for exemple Category:Images from Wiki Loves Monuments 2014 in Italy needing check (13 518!!!). My latest worry is instead Wiki Loves Africa, a laudable project but where often, if not very often, you find images of little use, without a really interesting subject. Thousands and thousands of people who represent a nation, but at least who are categorized, for example, by ethnicity (but no), hundreds of cars or even more characteristic vehicles (see tuk-tuks), It's as if photographers don't know exactly what to photograph and point their camera or cellphone at random. I'm afraid that these projects don't exactly know how to instruct users on the purposes who, although I am aware that they are all volunteers and that for this reason we cannot demand rigor, then in the end they fill with categories of service images often without the indication of subject, place of shooting, date of shooting, with Exif data that seem incongruous with the image (uploaded in 2023 in broad daylight but which from the data seems to have been taken in 2010 and in full night...). I also find categories of service that do not respond to their function as in the case of Category:Images from Wiki Loves Africa 2020 without categories and that instead at least one category (non-service) has been added over time. I wonder if it is possible to do something or if I have to resign myself to doing everything by hand once again, passing image by image investing a lot of time that I could perhaps invest in more nobler causes. See you later (alligators) ;-) Threecharlie (talk) 19:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

So, in short, you are saying that there are some maintenance categories (not even topical categories) that probably aren't much use. If they aren't much use to you, I'd recommend just ignoring them. - Jmabel ! talk 20:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but if I am here writing about it and asking for advice, it is not by ignoring the problem that it is solved, I would continue to have it every day that I do my dirty work, finding service categories that should help my work and instead complicate it. IMO ignoring is not a solution. Threecharlie (talk) 07:03, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
You could probably argue a lot of these types of categories are totally pointless. Especially long-term, but it seems like Wiki Loves Monuments has their own way of doing things that we seem to ultimately have zero control over. At the end of the day they can just dump images wherever, use as vague file descriptions as they feel like, create whatever pointless categories, and then just ignore people who complain about it. So your better off just ignoring them. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but that's an answer out of context, I don't need it and it's also exaggeratedly POV: WLM is without a shadow of a doubt an opportunity, if you don't see it as such it's not here that you should talk about it, open a discussion and if you bring home a win fine otherwise it's sterile polemics. Threecharlie (talk) 07:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
For WLE in Germany we use these categories for things like monitoring the file usage and to generate statics for example on how the fraction of disqualified und insufficient described photos developed. Of course we do not click through the category page but we need the category for the glamtools or petscan. GPSLeo (talk) 08:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Sure. I don't disagree. It can both be an opportunity and have it's own ways of doing things that are sometimes at odds with the wider project's goals and probably won't change. They aren't mutually exclusive. your free to ignore that, but at least IMO your better off just not worrying about it. Or maybe talk to the people who created the categories in the first place about it. I don't think you'll get a better answer here though. It's ultimately on the individual projects to change how they do things. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Render unto Caesar... Here we are on Commons and there are no projects on Commons, and God or whoever knows how much I feel we need them... Threecharlie (talk) 09:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Commons:WikiProject Postcards is pretty active. Although admittedly with only three serious contributors and that's the only one I can think of. I do agree we could use more then that though. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
i have noticed these cats before and probably written some ideas of mine. i cant find them but i'll redo it.
all these cats ("... to check" or something similar) are obviously only intended for short term use, right before they were even created.
so i suggest, any such new cats should be tagged with a template to indicate when they will become useless. otherwise, they are assumed to be useless 2 years after the event is over. for example, Category:Images from Wiki Loves Africa 2024 to check should be deletable after 2026-12-31. RZuo (talk) 12:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Help with Flickr2Commons import

Hey is there anyone willing to do an import from this album on Flickr for me? I'd do it but I'm busy with other stuff and don't know how to use Flickr2Commons anyway. Everything, or most everything in the album, should be PD. Thanks. Adamant1 (talk) 02:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Done! About 70 images were eligible for importing. About 40 of these were imported, the remaining 30 were already on Commons. ReneeWrites (talk) 13:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@ReneeWrites: Thanks! --Adamant1 (talk) 05:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Freeing the Freedom of Panorama for Mongolia and other changes

Hello community,

I've recently discovered that Mongolia's changes to copyright legislation, enacted in 2021, have granted Freedom of Panorama for architectural works, statues, and sculptures per Article 46 of the revised Law on Copyright and Related Rights (as amended May 6, 2021). The Mongolian original is available here and the English translation of the law is available here. I've updated the following pages with information and the relevant sources:

The new copyright reform also has the following changes:

  • Currency is now under works not protected by copyright.
  • Article 42 has a variety of provisions regarding "Partial exploitation of works stored in archive, museum and library resources without the authorization of author or without compensation" (this seems to have been the result of an effort by Mongolian Libraries Consortium (see: https://www.eifl.net/resources/copyright-law-fit-modern-mongolia) - I've added this to the "FoP-Mongolia" templates as they seemed vaguely relevant but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not sure if we have a process to Free the Freedom of Panorama for countries, and was wondering if old images deleted due to FoP rules can be reinstated? Is there anything else I need to do as well (besides updating the map images)?

Regards Chinneeb (talk) 10:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The relevant deletion requests should be in Category:Mongolian FOP cases/deleted. If everything checks out, undeletions shouldn't be a problem (like for Kosovo justa few days ago). --Rosenzweig τ 10:27, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, I've opened a mass undeletion request for currency-related files. I'm holding off on asking for undeletions of FoP cases for now - Please note that a discussion has been opened at Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Updated_FoP_in_Mongolia to discuss any potential issues with the new FoP rules. --Chinneeb (talk) 11:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Name for this kind of images

Hi!

What do you call videos where objects on a turntable rotate once around their own axis? Which category fits? (example: File:S3 Graphics Chrome 430 - 460 Nr. 2.webm)

Thanks! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 10:18, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Seamless animations? _ Broichmore (talk) 11:26, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 13:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Javascript users needed

there are a couple of code changes waiting for review for a long time. can you please take a look:

  1. MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Cat-a-lot.js multiple changes
  2. MediaWiki talk:Gadget-HotCat.js#Could a warning popup appear when adding a DAB cat while using HotCat?.

RZuo (talk) 11:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

What issues remain before we could switch the default interface skin to Vector 2022?

The current default interface skin is Vector 2010, which is now legacy. I've been trying the new Vector 2022 skin here for a while now, and it seems to be working well. You can try it by changing the interface at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. The fixed width issue has been a sticking point on other wikis, but since that is motivated by the length of a line of text that is easily readable, and we have a very different use case here since we're dealing with media browsing, I think we have a good case for disabling that part by default. Is there anything else that could be an issue? Do we want to have a vote here about changing the default, or should we just submit a request to make the change? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:52, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This is what it looks like to me: https://i.imgur.com/GQvAaZK.png (Win 10, Chrome 123.0.6312.107)
The only thing I have a strong opinion about is the ability to continue using the Vector 2010 skin even if it's no longer the default one. ReneeWrites (talk) 12:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
I am on the same boat of opinion as ReneeWrites. Just like the current implementation at enwiki, older Vector skin still exists as an option in the user preferences even if the default skin is Vector 2022. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
@ReneeWrites @JWilz12345 Thanks for your comments! It will be possible to use the old Vector skin, after that Vector22 becomes default. You will have to update now your GlobalPreferences to choose Vector10, or change to legacy version once the new default is set on Commons, since the default will change. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 12:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
The problem with Vector22 seems to be the lack of easily accessible interwikis.
2022 is already a while ago, so we might as well wait for the next Vector version. Enhancing999 (talk) 20:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 Oppose I have tried the Vector 2022 but I think for Commons it is not an improvement. Because so much space on the right is taken by standard stuff that is useful on sister projects (even when you do not want that stuff, it still takes a lot of empty space), that less space is left for the things Commons is about: images. In the old version there are eight images on a row in a category (on my desk top), in the new version seven (that is four more rows to scroll through when there are 200 files in a category). Same for gallery pages; when the "widths" is set on a larger number than the standard, there are only three or four images left, while in the old version there were five or six. For instance Gallery page Art, with standard width: five images on a row in the new version, eight in the old one. That is why I decided not to use the new version. I would like to grant users who are not familiar with vectors the same experience as I have with the old version. So my plea is to keep the old version as the default interface. JopkeB (talk) 07:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
  •  Support I originally disliked V22 due to how much space was wasted, either by whitespace or by things I wished would just be out of the way, but figured I'd give it a chance when enwiki switched to it. So I found the settings for fixed the annoying things. Like enabling full-width rather than limited-width (in the preferences pane). Like sending the TOC and tools menus to become collapsed pulldowns rather than being sidebars (the 'hide' buttons), which includes the interwiki links. I just compared Category:Benzene on my small/medium-sized desktop browser: V22 gives the same or even more images per row (depending on exact window width). DMacks (talk) 07:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
    It's possible that interwikis aren't of much use if one uses mainly English Wikipedia and Commons and relies on being logged-in. The Commons default layout is already a problem in mobile view. Let's not make it worse for the other 50% of users. Enhancing999 (talk) 14:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
  •  Oppose I hate Vector 2022, I'll never get the time it took me to switch to Vector 2010 back on English Wikipedia, and I'd like to not have to waste time switching back to Vector 2010 if 2022 becomes the default. Commons layout works fine as is. Abzeronow (talk) 00:18, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
  •  Oppose Per others. I don't think the minimal improvements that come with adopting it (assuming there even is any) are worth forcing established users to relearn the interface. Especially since the only improvement from what I can is more white space, which is of questionable benefit on here. Although I think it's good for Wikipedia, but there should really be a new vector style that works with our unique case. Instead of us just adopting one that was clearly created purely for better viewing of Wikipedia articles. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
the two sidebar design is horrible. it's in no way an improvement. who came up with that?!
hiding all interwiki links in a button-activated menu that requires you to type the langcode is also very dumb. wastes so many more clicks and typing to get to something that just exists on the sidebar in vector2010. RZuo (talk) 11:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
No objection, it’s just another paintjob —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
I also think that Vector 2022 is not yet ready to become the default for Commons. The new design is nice for reading articles but not for handling hundreds of files in categories and galleries with many different tools. The sticky sidebars are nice but not if you need to scroll inside the sidebar and I do not want a drop down menu to access my talk or contributions and files pages. GPSLeo (talk) 10:32, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
  •  Generally support. I've tried it and agree with above that the small body width is detrimental to Commons where media is consumed rather than text; ideally the Tools sidebar would be minimized by default and the left sidebar would be smaller. In general though I support moving to a modern interface - Commons is beginning to appear outdated compared to most other Wikipedias and the internet in general. Is there a way to gather more feedback from current Commons users before release, and will it be possible to gather feedback and make further adjustments afterwards? Consigned (talk) 18:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
    I think mobile view illustrates that no adjustment are made once it's released and users are plagued with the same problems for years. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:25, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Art about Holodomor

Hi, can someone help me with finding better source of this painting? I mean I need more info about this art but I can't find it anywhere except for some facebook fanpage. Kazachstanski nygus (talk) 19:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Kazachstanski nygus: Can you explain how this would relate to Commons? Stylistically, the image is almost certainly from the last 50 years, so it is almost certainly copyrighted? - Jmabel ! talk 21:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I can't speak fro Kazachstanski, but here it is on Commons, claimed to be from 1939, yet sourced from Facebook. So the veracity of the dating may be questioned. If we could find the original, we'd be able to verify the origin of our own image, and keep or delete it. I guess Kazachstanski asks for private purposes of their own, given how the village pump is pointed out to be the central place to ask all kind of questions. Best regards, --Enyavar (talk) 21:31, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I can't say that date is impossible, but my gut says it's improbable. Have a look at Category:1939 posters and its subcats for propaganda art of that period, and you'll see what I mean. Then compare (for example) File:MosBeauty89.jpg (from 1989) which looks much more likely to be of a period with this work. - Jmabel ! talk 22:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I agree. Ymblanter (talk) 05:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel Imo this poster definitely looks like something from interwar period or ww2 but whatever, our impressions don't matter here, I just want to find some legit source of info about that art. Kazachstanski nygus (talk) 16:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Nordisk Film

I noticed that the film studio Nordisk Film have started to release all their recent YouTube videos (read: film trailers and clips) under the CC license. Is it "safe" to host them on Commons? --Trade (talk) 22:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

There were huge discussion about similar cases the last months. They tended to keep them. (File talk:Hogwarts Legacy – Official 4K Reveal Trailer.webm). CC-licensed contents by huger companies on YouTube is not that rare as some people may think --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
As these kind of videos are usually also protected by trademark protection, there are still restrictions on how to use them, but it is not further relevant to this project --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:01, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi, I think these videos can be uploaded if Nordisk Film really owns the content, i.e. if there is no derivative works from other sources in the videos. Yann (talk) 10:41, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Question is whether or not purchasing the right to distribute a movie in a specific jurisdiction also gives them the right to license clips and trailers of it under a different license. --Trade (talk) 20:47, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Of course. If they are only a licensee of the films, they can't release them under another license. Yann (talk) 20:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Cat-a-lot disabled for search results?

Does any one else see this? Is this just me? Seems to me this worked fine as of earlier this month (my last successful use was at 2024-05-01 11:34 UTC) and I've been using Google Chrome on Microsoft Windows 11 for about a year now, but using Cat-a-lot from search results using Microsoft Edge seems to suffer from the same problem. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 11:36, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I have experienced the same problem, for the first time today. My workaround: click in the Cat-a-log gadget on Preferences, and then check the box "Allow categorising pages (including categories) that are not files" (which after months, still not works for subcategories with subcategories, see Commons:Village_pump/Technical#Cat-a-lot_does_not_work_for_categories) and then you can select whatever files you want. I'll add this problem there also. JopkeB (talk) 14:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
omg out of the millions of javascript programmers in the world can we not have 1 person to review and approve the code changes? RZuo (talk) 16:17, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Worked for me at [7]. I think it does attempt to categorize the same image twice though. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
The code change just got released, I think. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
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